'The global Magic Circle is American': ex-Big Law leader Charlie Geffen on US dominance, mergers and making deals with Trump
The ex-Ashurst senior partner has lived both UK and US law firm cultures, later co-heading Gibson Dunn’s private equity practice.
Contents
When Donald Trump turned his sights on Big Law earlier this year, threatening firms that had represented his political opponents, it sent shockwaves through the industry. Some firms famously moved to strike deals with the administration. Then came a letter in the Financial Times from former Ashurst senior partner Charlie Geffen, defending their decisions.
"I was slightly surprised by the reaction to it," he tells us on The Non-Billable Podcast. "In the end, the leadership of any organisation has to act in the best interests of that organisation. Clearly what the White House did was wholly egregious and wrong, but the state is incredibly powerful. And if you suddenly discover that the state is preventing you from accessing any federal building or any federal office, how do you carry on being a litigation practice? You probably can’t."
Geffen - who went on to co-head Gibson Dunn's private equity practice after leading Ashurst - argues Paul Weiss and others had no real choice. "It was unrealistic for people to expect Paul Weiss to sacrifice itself," he says. "Law firms may look powerful and successful, but they are quite fragile. We saw with Arthur Andersen, in very different circumstances, how they can literally collapse within weeks."
The only viable alternative, he says, would have been collective resistance. "If all the law firms and, dare I say it, their clients were to say, ‘this is not acceptable, we are collectively going to stand up to the White House,’ then that would have been different. But that’s not what happened. If you fall out with the government of the day, the government is always more powerful than even the biggest company in the world."
"Of course the rule of law matters enormously," he says. "But the rule of law has to be defended by a wider group of people who are able to stand up collectively and say enough is enough."
It was unrealistic for people to expect Paul Weiss to sacrifice itself - law firms are quite fragile.
Listen to the full-length interview on the podcast. Episode page with links here.
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The global Magic Circle is now American
Geffen is clear about where the power now lies in the global legal market. "The global magic circle is entirely American," he says. "The top English firms are fighting for a place in the global silver circle."
He points to long-standing US advantages. "The first is the strength and depth of the US domestic market. It’s just way beyond anything outside the US," he explains. "The second is that the US has always been a huge exporter of capital and that capital wants to use its own legal advisers rather than local ones. And then the third reason is the Department of Justice, the top US law firms are generally 50% litigation. A big DOJ investigation can go on for years."
The profitability gulf naturally follows. "The number of multi-billion-pound companies in the US absolutely exceeds anything in Europe," he says. "And the culture is different. The closest confidant to a chief executive in the US tends to be the general counsel, whereas in the UK it’s probably the CFO. Lawyers are more integrated with business."
Contrary to the "eat what you kill" cliché, Geffen says US firms’ structures actually promote collaboration. "They’re very focused on a single global profit and loss account," he says. "Whereas the English firms tend to have a separate P&L for each department or practice area. That actually creates more siloed behaviour than having a single firmwide P&L. The top US firms have created incentives much more focused on collaborative working than the English firms."
US firms are very focused on a single global profit and loss account. English firms tend to have separate P&Ls for each department.
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Addleshaw Goddard | £52,000 | £56,000 | £100,000 |
| Akin | £60,000 | £65,000 | £174,418 |
| A&O Shearman | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Ashurst | £57,000 | £62,000 | £140,000 |
| Baker McKenzie | £56,000 | £61,000 | £145,000 |
| Bird & Bird | £47,000 | £52,000 | £102,000 |
| Bristows | £46,000 | £50,000 | £88,000 |
| Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| Burges Salmon | £47,000 | £49,000 | £72,000 |
| Charles Russell Speechlys | £50,000 | £53,000 | £88,000 |
| Cleary Gottlieb | £62,500 | £67,500 | £164,500 |
| Clifford Chance | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Clyde & Co | £47,000 | £49,500 | £85,000 |
| CMS | £50,000 | £55,000 | £120,000 |
| Cooley | £55,000 | £60,000 | £157,000 |
| Davis Polk | £65,000 | £70,000 | £170,000 |
| Debevoise | £55,000 | £60,000 | £173,000 |
| Dechert | £55,000 | £61,000 | £165,000 |
| Dentons | £50,000 | £54,000 | £100,000 |
| DLA Piper | £52,000 | £57,000 | £130,000 |
| Eversheds Sutherland | £46,000 | £50,000 | £110,000 |
| Farrer & Co | £47,000 | £49,000 | £88,000 |
| Fieldfisher | £48,500 | £52,000 | £95,000 |
| Freshfields | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Fried Frank | £55,000 | £60,000 | £175,000 |
| Gibson Dunn | £60,000 | £65,000 | £180,000 |
| Goodwin Procter | £55,000 | £60,000 | £175,000 |
| Gowling WLG | £48,500 | £53,500 | £105,000 |
| Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer | £56,000 | £61,000 | £145,000 |
| HFW | £50,000 | £54,000 | £103,500 |
| Hill Dickinson | £43,000 | £45,000 | £80,000 |
| Hogan Lovells | £56,000 | £61,000 | £140,000 |
| Irwin Mitchell | £43,000 | £45,000 | £76,000 |
| Jones Day | £56,000 | £65,000 | £160,000 |
| K&L Gates | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| Kennedys | £43,000 | £46,000 | £85,000 |
| King & Spalding | £55,000 | £60,000 | £165,000 |
| Kirkland & Ellis | £60,000 | £65,000 | £174,418 |
| Latham & Watkins | £60,000 | £65,000 | £174,418 |
| Linklaters | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Macfarlanes | £56,000 | £61,000 | £140,000 |
| Mayer Brown | £55,000 | £60,000 | £150,000 |
| McDermott Will & Schulte | £65,000 | £70,000 | £174,418 |
| Milbank | £65,000 | £70,000 | £174,418 |
| Mills & Reeve | £45,000 | £47,000 | £82,000 |
| Mischon de Reya | £47,500 | £52,500 | £95,000 |
| Norton Rose Fulbright | £50,000 | £55,000 | £135,000 |
| Orrick | £55,000 | £60,000 | £160,000 |
| Osborne Clarke | £54,500 | £56,000 | £94,000 |
| Paul Hastings | £60,000 | £68,000 | £173,000 |
| Paul Weiss | £55,000 | £60,000 | £180,000 |
| Penningtons Manches Cooper | £48,000 | £50,000 | £83,000 |
| Pinsent Masons | £49,500 | £54,000 | £105,000 |
| Quinn Emanuel | n/a | n/a | £180,000 |
| Reed Smith | £50,000 | £55,000 | £125,000 |
| Ropes & Gray | £60,000 | £65,000 | £165,000 |
| RPC | £46,000 | £50,000 | £90,000 |
| Shoosmiths | £43,000 | £45,000 | £105,000 |
| Sidley Austin | £60,000 | £65,000 | £175,000 |
| Simmons & Simmons | £52,000 | £57,000 | £120,000 |
| Skadden | £58,000 | £63,000 | £173,000 |
| Slaughter and May | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Squire Patton Boggs | £47,000 | £50,000 | £110,000 |
| Stephenson Harwood | £50,000 | £55,000 | £100,000 |
| Sullivan & Cromwell | £65,000 | £70,000 | £174,418 |
| Taylor Wessing | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| TLT | £44,000 | £47,500 | £85,000 |
| Travers Smith | £55,000 | £60,000 | £130,000 |
| Trowers & Hamlins | £45,000 | £49,000 | £80,000 |
| Vinson & Elkins | £60,000 | £65,000 | £173,077 |
| Watson Farley & Williams | £50,000 | £55,000 | £102,000 |
| Weightmans | £34,000 | £36,000 | £70,000 |
| Weil Gotshal & Manges | £60,000 | £65,000 | £170,000 |
| White & Case | £62,000 | £67,000 | £175,000 |
| Willkie Farr & Gallagher | £60,000 | £65,000 | £170,000 |
| Withers | £47,000 | £52,000 | £95,000 |
| Womble Bond Dickinson | £43,000 | £45,000 | £80,000 |
Rank | Law Firm | Revenue | Profit per Equity Partner (PEP) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | DLA Piper* | £3,010,000,000 | £2,400,000 |
| 2 | Clifford Chance | £2,300,000,000 | £2,040,000 |
| 3 | A&O Shearman | £2,200,000,000 | £2,200,000 |
| 4 | Hogan Lovells | £2,150,000,000 | £2,200,000 |
| 5 | Freshfields | £2,120,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 6 | Linklaters | £2,100,000,000 | £1,900,000 |
| 7 | Norton Rose Fulbright* | £1,800,000,000 | £1,100,000 |
| 8 | CMS** | £1,620,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 9 | Herbert Smith Freehills | £1,300,000,000 | £1,300,000 |
| 10 | Ashurst | £961,000,000 | £1,300,000 |
| 11 | Clyde & Co | £844,000,000 | £739,000 |
| 12 | Eversheds Sutherland | £749,000,000 | £1,300,000 |
| 13 | BCLP* | £661,000,000 | £748,000 |
| 14 | Pinsent Masons | £649,000,000 | £793,000 |
| 15 | Slaughter and May*** | £625,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 16 | Simmons & Simmons | £574,000,000 | £1,076,000 |
| 17 | Bird & Bird** | £545,000,000 | £696,000 |
| 18 | Addleshaw Goddard | £495,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 19 | Taylor Wessing | £480,000,000 | £915,000*** |
| 20 | Osborne Clarke** | £456,000,000 | £771,000 |
| 21 | Womble Bond Dickinson | £448,000,000 | £556,000 |
| 22 | DWF | £435,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 23 | Fieldfisher | £407,000,000 | £966,000 |
| 24 | Kennedys | £384,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 25 | DAC Beachcroft | £325,000,000 | £700,000 |
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Private equity’s dominance and missed US mergers
Geffen, a leading PE lawyer in the 2000s, ties the US surge in London to private capital. "It started with funds," he says. US investors used US lawyers, and "if you were raising a fund in London seeking to attract US capital, you had to engage with the requirements of that capital."
Next came high-yield - "a very US-specific product." On a large UK or European deal, "if you have a layer of high yield in there, then you need US lawyers to help do that," he says. If US firms can also "do the senior debt, the mezzanine, the equity and all the rest of it, then they become more attractive."
In that sense, the rise of US firms in London mirrored what had already happened in investment banking and accounting. "English law firms were the anomaly in surviving so long before the Americans arrived."
Geffen is broadly in favour of the recent spate of transatlantic tie-ups. "They’re very good," he says. "The A&O Shearman deal undoubtedly differentiates Allen & Overy from the other Magic Circle firms. And the Herbert Smith-Kramer merger moves them into the US market with a credible brand. It saves them from years of investment on their own.
Still, he questions whether any firm can truly be global without ultimately being led from the US. "If they’re going to be what I call a global Magic Circle, can they be anything other than US-led?" he asks. "If you look at the investment banking world, they’re all led by Americans. I think that’s likely to be true here as well. In ten years’ time, the senior leadership of A&O will probably look quite different."
English law firms were the anomaly in surviving so long before the Americans arrived.
Why did Ashurst never merge with a US firm? Talks with Latham & Watkins and Fried Frank failed. "In many ways, it would have been a terrific deal," he says of Latham. "But neither firm really understood what compromises were necessary to create a merger of that kind."
Geffen says the firm’s later merger with Australian firm Blake Dawson, completed in 2012, was driven by the same logic. "There was still plenty of ambition to create a global firm," he explains. "The thinking was that it would be easier to persuade partners to do a US merger if Ashurst was bigger and stronger."
Ultimately, that second step never happened. "There’s a natural anxiety for any firm to merge into something bigger and more powerful," he says. "You’re giving up that visceral feeling of control over your destiny, even if it’s for the greater good."
Still, Geffen believes Ashurst has reinvented itself successfully. "It’s moved on very considerably," he says. "From a fairly boutique corporate and finance firm to a very successful global firm."
AI, consolidation, and the next chapter
"I think AI will have a dramatic effect over time," Geffen says. "The impact on the day-to-day task is going to be profound. You don’t need as many people in these firms. The skill base will be about how you input and use AI, how you analyse the outcome, and how you turn that into advice and delivery."
Private equity, he adds, is already circling. "Law is a hugely fragmented profession. There is plenty of scope for consolidation. The combination of private equity and the advent of AI will be a big part of facilitating that."
But at the very top end, he expects partnerships to endure. "The control of your destiny is a really important element of professional services," he says. "Even today, the very top-end firms tend to be partnerships because that just feels more comfortable. People like being able to control their own destiny."
| Firm | London office since | Known for in London |
|---|---|---|
| Akin | 1997 | Restructuring, funds |
| Baker McKenzie | 1961 | Finance, capital markets, TMT |
| Davis Polk | 1972 | Leveraged finance, corporate/M&A |
| Gibson Dunn | 1979 | Private equity, arbitration, energy, resources and infrastructure |
| Goodwin | 2008 | Private equity, funds, life sciences |
| Kirkland & Ellis | 1994 | Private equity, funds, restructuring |
| Latham & Watkins | 1990 | Finance, private equity, capital markets |
| McDermott Will & Schulte | 1998 | Finance, funds, healthcare |
| Milbank | 1979 | Finance, capital markets, energy, resources and infrastructure |
| Paul Hastings | 1997 | Leveraged finance, structured finance, infrastructure |
| Paul Weiss | 2001 | Private equity, leveraged finance |
| Quinn Emanuel | 2008 | Litigation |
| Sidley Austin | 1974 | Leveraged finance, capital markets, corporate/M&A |
| Simpson Thacher | 1978 | Leveraged finance, private equity, funds |
| Skadden | 1988 | Finance, corporate/M&A, arbitration |
| Sullivan & Cromwell | 1972 | Corporate/M&A, restructuring, capital markets |
| Weil | 1996 | Restructuring, private equity, leverage finance |
| White & Case | 1971 | Capital markets, arbitration, energy, resources and infrastructure |
| Law firm | Type | First-year salary |
|---|---|---|
| White & Case | US firm | £32,000 |
| Stephenson Harwood | International | £30,000 |
| A&O Shearman | Magic Circle | £28,000 |
| Charles Russell Speechlys | International | £28,000 |
| Freshfields | Magic Circle | £28,000 |
| Herbert Smith Freehills | Silver Circle | £28,000 |
| Hogan Lovells | International | £28,000 |
| Linklaters | Magic Circle | £28,000 |
| Mishcon de Reya | International | £28,000 |
| Norton Rose Fulbright | International | £28,000 |
This is a condensed version of our full length interview with Charlie Geffen on The Non-Billable Podcast. View the episode page here.
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| A&O Shearman | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Clifford Chance | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Linklaters | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Slaughter and May | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| A&O Shearman | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Clifford Chance | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Linklaters | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Slaughter and May | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ashurst | £57,000 | £62,000 | £140,000 |
| Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| Herbert Smith Freehills | £56,000 | £61,000 | £145,000 |
| Macfarlanes | £56,000 | £61,000 | £140,000 |
| Travers Smith | £55,000 | £60,000 | £130,000 |
| Firm | Merger year | Known for in London |
|---|---|---|
| BCLP | 2018 | Real estate, corporate/M&A, litigation |
| DLA Piper | 2005 | Corporate/M&A, real estate, energy, resources and infrastructure |
| Eversheds Sutherland | 2017 | Corporate/M&A, finance |
| Hogan Lovells | 2011 | Litigation, regulation, finance |
| Mayer Brown | 2002 | Finance, capital markets, real estate |
| Norton Rose Fulbright | 2013 | Energy, resources and infrastructure, insurance, finance |
| Reed Smith | 2007 | Shipping, finance, TMT |
| Squire Patton Boggs | 2011 | Corporate/M&A, pensions, TMT |
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ashurst | £57,000 | £62,000 | £140,000 |
| Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer | £56,000 | £61,000 | £145,000 |
| Macfarlanes | £56,000 | £61,000 | £140,000 |
| Travers Smith | £55,000 | £60,000 | £130,000 |
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