Inside Simmons' AI play: Senior partner Julian Taylor on in-house chatbots, AI agents and the future of law
Simmons & Simmons' senior partner says some firms won't survive the AI revolution - 'It's moving very fast'.
Contents
Julian Taylor joined Simmons & Simmons from the Bar in 1999, by his own admission "absolutely dreading" the prospect of working in a City law firm. 25 years later, he’s still there - now senior partner, one of the City’s top employment lawyers and the driving force behind a tech strategy that puts AI at the centre of how Simmons delivers legal services.
Right now, Taylor says, the profession is on the brink of a huge technological shift. "Looking forward two or three years’ time, we’ll just be doing work very, very differently from how we do it at the moment," he tells us in a conversation for The Non-Billable Podcast. "There’ll be increasing use of AI agents. A lot of tasks that are still done manually at the moment will be done by machine… I suspect some firms won’t survive… this is all moving very fast."
For Taylor, the winners will be those who invest in both the tools and the cultural change needed to make it work. "AI is just as much about the people as it is about the tech," he says. "A key part of all of that is helping to support our people in developing their skills around it."
Listen to the full-length interview on the podcast. Episode page with links here.
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Percy at the heart of the firm
Simmons has baked in tech and innovation "right at the heart of the business". Around 90% of fee earners now use AI regularly, thanks in large part to Percy, the firm’s in-house AI tool. Taylor recalls asking a junior associate how he uses it. "He said it’s almost easier to say what I’m not using it for." Lawyers use it to speed up work, approach tasks differently and, often, more creatively.
Some examples are simple but game-changing compared to even just a few years ago. During a client call in a litigation matter, Taylor recalls, the other side sent over a 50-page document. "While I was speaking to the client, I was able to send them a one-page summary - brilliant from a client perspective because previously that would have had someone spending several hours going through that."
The firm has created an internal prompt library so lawyers can share effective AI queries. "The key to using AI is being kind of smart with the prompts," Taylor notes.
AI agents and subscription models
While Simmons has invested heavily in its own technology, it also works with third-party providers. This summer, it teamed up with German legal AI company Flank to develop AI agents, semi-autonomous systems trained to perform specific legal tasks.
"The lead agent we’ve been working with clients on so far is around NDAs," Taylor explains. "The ability to have that done by an agent is amazing from a client’s perspective… with the ability to escalate to a human as well where particular complications or sensitivities arise."
The offering is subscription-based, with clients paying for ongoing access. Other use cases, such as for investment management agreements, are in the works. Taylor predicts "a lot of activity in that direction over the next 12-24 months."
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Addleshaw Goddard | £52,000 | £56,000 | £100,000 |
| Akin Gump | £60,000 | £65,000 | £174,418 |
| A&O Shearman | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Ashurst | £57,000 | £62,000 | £140,000 |
| Baker McKenzie | £56,000 | £61,000 | £145,000 |
| Bird & Bird | £47,000 | £52,000 | £102,000 |
| Bristows | £46,000 | £50,000 | £88,000 |
| Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| Burges Salmon | £47,000 | £49,000 | £72,000 |
| Charles Russell Speechlys | £50,000 | £53,000 | £88,000 |
| Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton | £57,500 | £62,500 | £164,500 |
| Clifford Chance | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Clyde & Co | £47,000 | £49,500 | £85,000 |
| CMS | £50,000 | £55,000 | £120,000 |
| Cooley | £55,000 | £60,000 | £157,000 |
| Davis Polk | £65,000 | £70,000 | £170,000 |
| Debevoise | £55,000 | £60,000 | £173,000 |
| Dechert | £55,000 | £61,000 | £165,000 |
| Dentons | £50,000 | £54,000 | £100,000 |
| DLA Piper | £52,000 | £57,000 | £130,000 |
| Eversheds Sutherland | £46,000 | £50,000 | £110,000 |
| Farrer & Co | £47,000 | £49,000 | £88,000 |
| Fieldfisher | £48,500 | £52,000 | £95,000 |
| Freshfields | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Fried Frank | £55,000 | £60,000 | £175,000 |
| Gibson Dunn | £60,000 | £65,000 | £180,000 |
| Goodwin Procter | £55,000 | £60,000 | £175,000 |
| Gowling WLG | £48,500 | £53,500 | £105,000 |
| Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer | £56,000 | £61,000 | £145,000 |
| HFW | £50,000 | £54,000 | £103,500 |
| Hill Dickinson | £43,000 | £45,000 | £80,000 |
| Hogan Lovells | £56,000 | £61,000 | £140,000 |
| Irwin Mitchell | £43,000 | £45,000 | £76,000 |
| Jones Day | £56,000 | £65,000 | £160,000 |
| K&L Gates | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| Kennedys | £43,000 | £46,000 | £85,000 |
| King & Spalding | £55,000 | £60,000 | £165,000 |
| Kirkland & Ellis | £60,000 | £65,000 | £174,418 |
| Latham & Watkins | £60,000 | £65,000 | £174,418 |
| Linklaters | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Macfarlanes | £56,000 | £61,000 | £140,000 |
| Mayer Brown | £55,000 | £60,000 | £150,000 |
| McDermott Will & Emery | £65,000 | £70,000 | £174,418 |
| Milbank | £65,000 | £70,000 | £174,418 |
| Mills & Reeve | £45,000 | £47,000 | £82,000 |
| Mischon de Reya | £47,500 | £52,500 | £95,000 |
| Norton Rose Fulbright | £50,000 | £55,000 | £135,000 |
| Orrick | £55,000 | £60,000 | £160,000 |
| Osborne Clarke | £54,500 | £56,000 | £94,000 |
| Paul Hastings | £60,000 | £68,000 | £173,000 |
| Paul Weiss | £55,000 | £60,000 | £180,000 |
| Penningtons Manches Cooper | £48,000 | £50,000 | £83,000 |
| Pinsent Masons | £49,500 | £54,000 | £105,000 |
| Quinn Emanuel | n/a | n/a | £180,000 |
| Reed Smith | £50,000 | £55,000 | £125,000 |
| Ropes & Gray | £60,000 | £65,000 | £165,000 |
| RPC | £46,000 | £50,000 | £90,000 |
| Shoosmiths | £43,000 | £45,000 | £105,000 |
| Sidley Austin | £60,000 | £65,000 | £175,000 |
| Simmons & Simmons | £52,000 | £57,000 | £120,000 |
| Skadden | £58,000 | £63,000 | £173,000 |
| Slaughter and May | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Squire Patton Boggs | £47,000 | £50,000 | £110,000 |
| Stephenson Harwood | £50,000 | £55,000 | £100,000 |
| Sullivan & Cromwell | £65,000 | £70,000 | £174,418 |
| Taylor Wessing | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| TLT | £44,000 | £47,500 | £85,000 |
| Travers Smith | £55,000 | £60,000 | £130,000 |
| Trowers & Hamlins | £45,000 | £49,000 | £80,000 |
| Vinson & Elkins | £60,000 | £65,000 | £173,077 |
| Watson Farley & Williams | £50,000 | £55,000 | £102,000 |
| Weightmans | £34,000 | £36,000 | £70,000 |
| Weil Gotshal & Manges | £60,000 | £65,000 | £170,000 |
| White & Case | £62,000 | £67,000 | £175,000 |
| Willkie Farr & Gallagher | £60,000 | £65,000 | £170,000 |
| Withers | £47,000 | £52,000 | £95,000 |
| Womble Bond Dickinson | £43,000 | £45,000 | £80,000 |
Rank | Law Firm | Revenue | Profit per Equity Partner (PEP) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | DLA Piper* | £3,010,000,000 | £2,400,000 |
| 2 | Clifford Chance | £2,300,000,000 | £2,040,000 |
| 3 | A&O Shearman | £2,200,000,000 | £2,200,000 |
| 4 | Hogan Lovells | £2,150,000,000 | £2,200,000 |
| 5 | Freshfields | £2,120,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 6 | Linklaters | £2,100,000,000 | £1,900,000 |
| 7 | Norton Rose Fulbright* | £1,800,000,000 | £1,100,000 |
| 8 | CMS** | £1,620,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 9 | Herbert Smith Freehills | £1,300,000,000 | £1,300,000 |
| 10 | Ashurst | £961,000,000 | £1,300,000 |
| 11 | Clyde & Co | £844,000,000 | £739,000 |
| 12 | Eversheds Sutherland | £749,000,000 | £1,300,000 |
| 13 | BCLP* | £661,000,000 | £748,000 |
| 14 | Pinsent Masons | £649,000,000 | £793,000 |
| 15 | Slaughter and May*** | £625,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 16 | Simmons & Simmons | £574,000,000 | £1,076,000 |
| 17 | Bird & Bird** | £545,000,000 | £696,000 |
| 18 | Addleshaw Goddard | £495,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 19 | Taylor Wessing | £480,000,000 | £915,000*** |
| 20 | Osborne Clarke** | £456,000,000 | £771,000 |
| 21 | Womble Bond Dickinson | £448,000,000 | £556,000 |
| 22 | DWF | £435,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 23 | Fieldfisher | £407,000,000 | £966,000 |
| 24 | Kennedys | £384,000,000 | Not disclosed |
| 25 | DAC Beachcroft | £325,000,000 | £700,000 |
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For a closer look at the day-to-day of some of the most common types of lawyers working in corporate law firms, explore our lawyer job profiles:
Pricing in the age of AI
If Percy and other tools speed things up, clients naturally might expect to pay less. Taylor says the reality is more nuanced. "One client said to me… we tend to want the best of both worlds. If you do something quickly, we want to pay for the 10 minutes it took you. And if it takes longer, we want a different sort of fee arrangement that’s not time-based."
He predicts a gradual shift towards value-based pricing and says AI will make work viable that was once too costly.. "If that can be done through AI, why not?… It can be work that is more commoditised and document-heavy, but it’s also linked to higher-value work from the client’s perspective."
Training and the AI generation
The profession has long relied on junior lawyers cutting their teeth on the bread and butter aspects of legal work: document review, research and drafting. Taylor admits there is a risk that if AI handles those tasks, future senior lawyers may lack the same grounding. "Your drafting exercise of the future will be the prompts," he says. "But we will need to find ways of ensuring that trainee lawyers do get that sort of experience… The risk is that you don’t have that basic grounding."
Still, he is bullish about the career prospects of AI-literate lawyers. "You’ll be fine as long as you embrace AI. If you’re fearful or tech-phobic, that’s where the careers will just disappear."
AI has also become a recruitment tool. "Do they want to be at the forefront or at a firm that’s constantly playing catch up? We see junior people really excited about coming in and using Percy and other tools… Often they’re much more advanced in what they can do [than senior lawyers]."
We will need to find ways of ensuring that trainee lawyers do get experience. The risk is that you don’t have that basic grounding.
The NQ pay wars
If AI is one battleground, pay is most certainly another.
Taylor’s view on newly qualified (NQ) salaries in the City is blunt: "The pay of newly qualified lawyers in some parts of the industry is crazy. I think it’s too much… you’re paying them what, four times what a teacher is paid, more than a hospital consultant… It drives clients absolutely mad."
He points out that inflated NQ salaries push up costs for clients and distort the in-house market, where pay is often benchmarked against private practice. Simmons aims to remain competitive without matching the very top of the US market: "We also want our trainees and juniors to have a life… not just sleep and work."
US firms and market gaps
The growth of US firms in London has been one of the biggest market shifts of Taylor’s career. "It’s good for London that they’ve invested so heavily… But one of the trends is that this big drive for profitability means that they’ve become much narrower in their focus. That’s created gaps in the market, and that’s been quite fruitful for us."
Taylor says some clients now complain that certain firms are so interested in big-ticket work that the relationship suffers. "They want the big thing that comes along once every six months… For us, relationships are the core of what we do. ​​We're very keen to partner with our clients along the full life cycle of what they do."
For us, relationships are the core of what we do. ​​We're very keen to partner with our clients along the full life cycle of what they do.
A 90% career and the case for flexibility
Taylor’s own working pattern has also attracted attention - he went viral recently on LinkedIn with a post about it. Since 2005, he's taken Wednesday afternoons off - an arrangement he credits with keeping him in City law. "I was very mindful I’d kind of become a weekend dad… I just asked quite tentatively and three weeks later I had my first Wednesday afternoon off. There was no pushback."
He sees arrangements like this as crucial to talent retention: "By having those sorts of arrangements, we’ve been able to keep brilliant people and attract talent from elsewhere where those sorts of arrangements aren’t available."
It’s a philosophy that applies to clients as well. Taylor tells the story of a sceptical American client who initially resisted having a part-time lawyer on his account, but nine months later refused to let her go: "He just realised how fantastic she was… Ultimately, that’s what clients want. They want brilliant professionals working on their account."
Looking ahead
Taylor’s current term as senior partner runs to 2027. In that time, he says, Simmons will double down on its AI strategy, refining the tech and making sure lawyers have the skills to work with it.
That mix of technological ambition and focus on people, Taylor believes, sets the firm apart. "What clients want more than anything else, they want brilliant people working on their accounts," he says.
"We're really confident about the proposition we have both for our clients and for our people as to why we're a slightly different place to forge your career."
What clients want more than anything else is brilliant people working on their accounts.
| Firm | London office since | Known for in London |
|---|---|---|
| Baker McKenzie | 1961 | Finance, capital markets, TMT |
| Davis Polk | 1972 | Leveraged finance, corporate/M&A |
| Gibson Dunn | 1979 | Private equity, arbitration, energy, resources and infrastructure |
| Goodwin | 2008 | Private equity, funds, life sciences |
| Kirkland & Ellis | 1994 | Private equity, funds, restructuring |
| Latham & Watkins | 1990 | Finance, private equity, capital markets |
| Milbank | 1979 | Finance, capital markets, energy, resources and infrastructure |
| Paul Hastings | 1997 | Leveraged finance, structured finance, infrastructure |
| Paul Weiss | 2001 | Private equity, leveraged finance |
| Quinn Emanuel | 2008 | Litigation |
| Sidley Austin | 1974 | Leveraged finance, capital markets, corporate/M&A |
| Simpson Thacher | 1978 | Leveraged finance, private equity, funds |
| Skadden | 1988 | Finance, corporate/M&A, arbitration |
| Weil | 1996 | Restructuring, private equity, leverage finance |
| White & Case | 1971 | Capital markets, arbitration, energy, resources and infrastructure |
| Law firm | Type | First-year salary |
|---|---|---|
| White & Case | US firm | £32,000 |
| Stephenson Harwood | International | £30,000 |
| A&O Shearman | Magic Circle | £28,000 |
| Charles Russell Speechlys | International | £28,000 |
| Freshfields | Magic Circle | £28,000 |
| Herbert Smith Freehills | Silver Circle | £28,000 |
| Hogan Lovells | International | £28,000 |
| Linklaters | Magic Circle | £28,000 |
| Mishcon de Reya | International | £28,000 |
| Norton Rose Fulbright | International | £28,000 |
This is a condensed version of our full length interview with Julian Taylor on The Non-Billable Podcast. View the episode page here.
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| A&O Shearman | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Clifford Chance | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Linklaters | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Slaughter and May | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| A&O Shearman | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Clifford Chance | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Linklaters | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
| Slaughter and May | £56,000 | £61,000 | £150,000 |
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ashurst | £57,000 | £62,000 | £140,000 |
| Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| Herbert Smith Freehills | £56,000 | £61,000 | £145,000 |
| Macfarlanes | £56,000 | £61,000 | £140,000 |
| Travers Smith | £55,000 | £60,000 | £130,000 |
| Firm | Merger year | Known for in London |
|---|---|---|
| BCLP | 2018 | Real estate, corporate/M&A, litigation |
| DLA Piper | 2005 | Corporate/M&A, real estate, energy, resources and infrastructure |
| Eversheds Sutherland | 2017 | Corporate/M&A, finance |
| Hogan Lovells | 2011 | Litigation, regulation, finance |
| Mayer Brown | 2002 | Finance, capital markets, real estate |
| Norton Rose Fulbright | 2013 | Energy, resources and infrastructure, insurance, finance |
| Reed Smith | 2007 | Shipping, finance, TMT |
| Squire Patton Boggs | 2011 | Corporate/M&A, pensions, TMT |
Law Firm | Trainee First Year | Trainee Second Year | Newly Qualified (NQ) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ashurst | £57,000 | £62,000 | £140,000 |
| Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner | £50,000 | £55,000 | £115,000 |
| Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer | £56,000 | £61,000 | £145,000 |
| Macfarlanes | £56,000 | £61,000 | £140,000 |
| Travers Smith | £55,000 | £60,000 | £130,000 |
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